6 Responses to “US Health Care: Is There A Perfect Solution?”

1. C.R.Caudle Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 5:38 am

   You must be reading different reports on how well socialized medicine is doing in other countries..than what I read.
   From Obamas own lips..”Look at the people I’ve surrounded myself with..regarding healthcare..that will tell you what I believe.”
   I have looked…and they think seniors (like me) are not worthy of medical procedures..they would rather give them to the 15 – 40 yr olds..cause they are more productive . Thanks a lot for being willing to write off us old people. It was war veterans like us who preserved your freedom to live & breathe in freedom today.
   And the thanks we get…we can receive aspirin…instead of that heart bypass we might so desparately need!!!
   GOD bless America? I don’t think so. Why should he? We’re like Sodom & Gomorrah.

2. Ken Garrett Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 6:21 am

   I lived in Germany for 14 years and married a German. The different things I have observed in their healthcare system was enough to convince me that I don’t want any part of socialized medicine.

   WHO has no idea about healthcare and has no credibility with a free market society. If we want real reform in the US, we need to start with tort reform and get the trial lawyers out of the way of both doctors and patients.

3. Ruth Aranyos Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 11:57 am

   I agree with number 1.
   I love America!!!! I have 3 grandsons and a grandaughter
   in service to there country. GOD forbid that Obama gets
   his way. This is AMERICA not Russia.
   If our fore fathers could see what is happening to their
   Constition they would turn over in their graves!!!!!
   Right now all who know God should be on their knees asking
   ‘GOD BLESS AMERICA’!!!
   May HE have Mercy upon us!!!

4. Philip Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

   First: You did not read the article nor did you watch the show: Neither the article or the show are suggesting that America adopts a socialized medical system.

   Second: I lived in Germany for 21 years and in the US for 8 years. Let’s keep the debate honest with some facts: First of all saying that the German health care system is socialized medicine is false. Medical practices are typically private companies, hospitals are run by private, state, municipal, and non-profit entities. Furthermore Germany has two separate insurance care systems: a public system, and a private system. Both have multiple agencies / companies competing for customers.

   It is true that both systems are regulated. This is to ensure that prices are not out of control, that everyone is covered, that no one can be refused health insurance, and that no one looses insurance when filing a claim. I’ve been in both the public and the private insurance system and have had good experiences with both. In both systems I never had to deal with much bureaucracy or paperwork (there was a bit of paperwork in the private system) and had access to virtually any doctor, optometrists, or dentist. In both systems I was able to get same day appointments for urgent matters (e.g. a cold). The quality of medical care that I experienced in Germany was consistently excellent in virtually every area and not once did a doctor hesitate in ordering an MRI or other so-called expensive examinations, nor did I have to wait.

   In the US my experience has been much more frustrating and inconsistent. For one, I first was unable to get insurance while self-employed. I was rejected for “pre-existing conditions” – having checked on their application form that I had experienced headaches in the past. Apparently that made me, a healthy twenty-something, too great a risk. Now that I’m an employee I have insurance through my employer. However I don’t have much choice in my insurance companies and have to deal with three separate dental, vision, and medical insurance companies, which is a lot of paperwork. Additionally, the insurances want me to stick to their network providers, which means that if I want to take advantage of their maximum health coverage I cannot freely choose my provider. Alright, I can’t get insurance on my own, I can’t pick my insurance, and I can’t freely choose my health provider without loosing part of my coverage – I would not call that a free market experience in which providers compete for customers solely based on their merit.

   Now, I’ve generally had good experience with doctors in the US, even though they do seem a lot more rushed than in Germany. However, the few times I’ve had emergencies (e.g. a sports injury) it was impossible to get timely appointments with a private practitioner. Apparently I was expected to plan my emergencies and appointments weeks in advance. Since that does not make sense I had to go to the ER or free clinics for fairly minor injuries.

   To sum up: In order for us to have a productive dialog about health care we need to be calm, open minded, and honest. I personally am not a proponent of a singular state run health care system but I firmly believe that we need to regulate the health care industry to stop private corporations from destroying peoples lives and further wrecking our national health and finances.

5. Poeinca Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

   You are either badly misinformed or culpably ignorant. The US health care system is second to none.

   The various statistics cited by WHO and the socialized medicine cabal often relate to life expectancy, infant mortality, etc. All these statistics are related to genetics, age distribution, exercise, diet, culture, environmental factors, lifestyle choices, etc, NONE of which are determined or largely affected by health care systems. When you compare survival rates for various diseases, notably cancer, the US leads the world. Twelve of the top twenty pharmaceutical companies are based in the US. Our medical schools are the best in the world. We’ve got 90 Nobel Prizes for medicine – more than the next 15 countries combined.

   Socialists talk about the cost of US health care without regard to its quality which is clearly superior here – you get what you pay for. They also conflate ‘expenditures’ with costs. The US spends more on health care because we have a rapidly aging population, we have more drugs, procedures, and diagnostics available, people CHOOSE greater consumption of health care, and the poor diet, exercise and lifestyle choices creates a greater need.

   Also, the costs of socialized medicine are vastly understated. The tax burden and associated loss in social welfare (excess burdern) are rarely tallied into costs. Wait times and lack of availability are not counted as a cost. The budget deficits are not counted as costs. There is a reason why people in those countries come to the US for tratment. Few Americans go abroad for treatment.

   The number of uninsured you hear about is grossly inflated. Many uninsured are eligible for Medicaidor Medicare but don’t sign up. Many can afford insurance but choose not to buy it. Many are simply between jobs and are only transitionally uninsured. Many are illegal aliens.

   Under Obamacare, costs will NOT go down. More insured people means greater demand for services and thus higher costs and longer waits. YOU will have the stinking homeless bum sitting next to you in the waiting room, Obama will not.

   When the marginal cost of a good is zero (or low), people will OVERUTILIZE it. So that means goods will either have to be rationed by lines or triage or that the system will run perpetual deficits.

   Health care is NOT a right. If you think so, you don’t know what a ‘right’ is. Health care is provided with scarce resources which must be rationed, and hundreds of years of economics has taught us that the best way to ration is by price. People should PAY for the goods and services they use and not expect others to pay for them.

   Obamacare is full of lies, and chief among them is that you will get to keep your insurance and doctor. Over time, private insurers will be unable to compete with government which can run endless deficits. Employers will dump the plan you like for the taxpayer subsidized plan. Many doctors will find the compensation scheme unacceptable and close practice or cut back on patients. Obama has already been caught saying that a single payer system is his ultimate goal. His current rhetoric is a lie to get the bill passed.

6. Philip Says:
   August 13th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

   Out of curiosity: Do you consider yourself a Christian? Do you consider yourself a Patriot?

   Some responses to your posting:
   —–
   “You are either badly misinformed or culpably ignorant. The US health care system is second to none.”
   Not sure who #5 is disagreeing with but I’d like to tackle some of their arguments
   —–

   “The various statistics cited by WHO and the socialized medicine cabal often relate to life expectancy, infant mortality, etc. All these statistics are related to genetics, age distribution, exercise, diet, culture, environmental factors, lifestyle choices, etc, NONE of which are determined or largely affected by health care systems.”
   Agreed there are multiple factors explaining why the US ranks poorly across many health metrics but as a whole your claim is questionable. After all, the US compares poorly against European countries that have much older populations and equally unhealthy lifestyles (poor diet, high alcohol consumption, smoking, lack of exercise) and US States with populations of primarily European descent compare poorly against European nations of the same genetic background.
   —–

   “When you compare survival rates for various diseases, notably cancer, the US leads the world.”
   Yes, but by a decreasing margin. The reason for higher survival rates may be in better oncological practices than in Europe or it may be related to genetics, exercise, diet, culture, environmental factors, lifestyle choices, etc. Assuming that oncological practices are better – imagine everyone having access to this level of service and we’d leave Europe in the dust. Unfortunately the US lags in other areas: US Child Birth death rates (#33) are much higher than in Europe or some Asian and Caribbean dictatorships.
   —–

   “Twelve of the top twenty pharmaceutical companies are based in the US.”
   What is your definition of a top pharmaceutical company? Did you take into account the size of the pharmaceutical industries? Did you research who the true innovators are and who just make minor modifications to drugs in order to repatent them? Qualifying quality is much more complex than your numbers game is leading us to believe. In any case: based on revenue 10 of the top 20 are US based and 10 of the top 20 are from those socialist countries like the UK, France, Israel, Germany, Sweden, and Switzerland. The population of the US is 305 million. The population of those countries combined is 350 million. Pretty comparable.
   —–

   “Our medical schools are the best in the world. We’ve got 90 Nobel Prizes for medicine – more than the next 15 countries combined.”
   I don’t think we’re having a debate about education or changing medical education in the US. We’re having a debate about health care. In any case: The US has 85 Nobel Prizes in Physiology and Medicine which does make it the leader in one metric: Nobel Prizes in Physiology and Medicine. For all Nobel prizes the US ranks 11 if adjusted by size of population. Certainly a good a result, but not exceptional.
   —–

   “Socialists talk about the cost of US health care without regard to its quality which is clearly superior here”
   Which socialists are you referring to?
   —–

   “You get what you pay for.”
   Unless you paid for it and then loose coverage by filing a claim.
   —–

   “They also conflate ‘expenditures’ with costs. The US spends more on health care because we have a rapidly aging population, we have more drugs, procedures, and diagnostics available, people CHOOSE greater consumption of health care, and the poor diet, exercise and lifestyle choices creates a greater need.”
   I agree that numbers can lie and that in some nations people may or may not be more conservative in their medical spending. However, administrative and legal costs are extraordinarily high in the US when compared to other nations. Also, the US population is much younger than European populations.
   —–

   “Also, the costs of socialized medicine are vastly understated. The tax burden and associated loss in social welfare (excess burdern) are rarely tallied into costs.”
   Please substantiate your claim.
   —–

   “Wait times and lack of availability are not counted as a cost.”
   Varies from country to country. Not all countries that offer universal health care are doing this via a single-payer or public system.
   —–

   “The budget deficits are not counted as costs.”
   Please substantiate your claim.
   —–

   “There is a reason why people in those countries come to the US for tratment. Few Americans go abroad for treatment.”
   How many people come to the US for treatment? What kind of people do you think can afford traveling to the US for treatment? Do you think regular Americans could afford traveling abroad (or even across the country) for treatment if they wanted to?

   —–

   “The number of uninsured you hear about is grossly inflated. Many uninsured are eligible for Medicaidor Medicare but don’t sign up. Many can afford insurance but choose not to buy it.”
   Please substantiate your claim.
   —–

   “Many are simply between jobs and are only transitionally uninsured.”
   If something happens to them in that time frame then they are uninsured and face financial disaster.
   —–

   “Many are illegal aliens.”
   Since when are illegal aliens accounted for in official government statistics?
   —–

   “Under Obamacare, costs will NOT go down.”
   Can you please substantiate the existence of Obamacare?
   —–

   “More insured people means greater demand for services and thus higher costs and longer waits.”
   It also means a larger pool of payees.
   —–

   “YOU will have the stinking homeless bum sitting next to you in the waiting room, Obama will not.”
   Let’s just hope for your sake that you don’t end up as a homeless person in the course of… let’s say a worldwide recession. Also, you may have to sit next to homeless people or prison inmates when visiting an ER under the current system.
   —–

   “When the marginal cost of a good is zero (or low), people will OVERUTILIZE it. So that means goods will either have to be rationed by lines or triage or that the system will run perpetual deficits.”
   I don’t understand your point here. I’m insured right now and my co-pay is $10. That is near zero and I don’t go to the doctor except for my annual or when I am sick. However, based on your argument I should be a regular denizen of my local ER.
   —–

   “Health care is NOT a right. If you think so, you don’t know what a ‘right’ is.”
   What is a right?
   —–

   “Health care is provided with scarce resources which must be rationed”
   Which resources are you referring to?
   —–

   “and hundreds of years of economics has taught us that the best way to ration is by price. People should PAY for the goods and services they use and not expect others to pay for them.”
   Nobody is suggesting that health care is free. How do you think the current system pays for the uninsured that it treats? Are you suggesting they should not be treated?
   —–

   “Obamacare is full of lies, and chief among them is that you will get to keep your insurance and doctor.”
   Can you please substantiate the existence of Obamacare and what are you basing your claim on that you would loose your insurance and doctor?
   —–

   “Over time, private insurers will be unable to compete with government which can run endless deficits. Employers will dump the plan you like for the taxpayer subsidized plan. Many doctors will find the compensation scheme unacceptable and close practice or cut back on patients.”
   What are you basing this assumption on? This is not what has happened in other countries that have socialized medicine. Of course many countries don’t have socialized medicine but regulated private markets.
   —–

   “Obama has already been caught saying that a single payer system is his ultimate goal.”
   Where?
   —–

   “His current rhetoric is a lie to get the bill passed.”
   Which of the bills? What are you claiming is his intention?

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